On a recent episode of Amicus, Dahlia Lithwick spoke with Walt Shaub, former director of the Office of Government Ethics, about recent developments from the Jan. 6 commission and Washington’s accountability gap. A portion of their conversation, which has been condensed and edited for clarity, has been transcribed below.
Dahlia Lithwick: Let’s just jump in on this split screen of Jan. 6. You have been incredibly critical of the slaps on the wrists that have been meted out to the lowest-level coup participants, while leadership, really from the top down, has been almost completely immune, not just from prosecution, but even from scrutiny. It seems as though the reporting last week maybe changed that. The New York Times reported that members of the Freedom Caucus were deeply involved in efforts to pressure the Justice Department to pressure state of officials to pressure Mike Pence himself to overturn the election results. We’re actually seeing texts that were sent to Mark Meadows on the day of Jan. 6 that seem to implicate kind of everybody. It now really feels like the calls were quite literally coming from inside the house. Is this different, has this changed, or are we just too far gone along the path of normalizing Jan. 6 to care?
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